Random Oscar Thoughts 2012-2013: Part 3

[McTeague]

I think we're now drifting into semantics about what background means here. Her character is BUILT upon her lack of agency and that she is overwhelmed and forced to submit to the power of outside forces to survive. She is not an agentive role, she is largely in the background of the film and her scenes -- she is an extreme, heightened example of the downtrodden and losing it all.

No, we’re not drifting into semantics. You told Blasty Hathaway has nothing to do in the film, when he was asking if she had less to do than in the show, and that she’s the focal point only in I Dreamed a Dream. Blasty expressly mentioned her song “Come to Me”. That song is in the film, and I’d like to hear how you argue she’s not the focal point of that song in the film.

That you think she’s not a character with agency has nothing to do with her being the focal point of her numbers. Fantine has 4 numbers in the show. 2 are absolutely focused on her (IDAD and CtM) and two are choir numbers (At the End of the Day and LovelyLadies/Arrest, although she’s the focal point in “Arrest” again). The two were she’s the focal point are preserved in its entirety in the film and even extended, and the two choir numbers feature Fantine much more prominently than the stage show, even extending her role in them (the show doesn’t have the part of selling the teeth). That’s exactly what Blasty was asking. You misrepresented it to him by saying she’s not the focal point anywhere but in IDAD. And that is simply wrong and has nothing to do with how you perceive her importance as a character due to her agency or lack of it. Blasty already knows Fantine is not known for being the leader of the revolution against oppressors, he was merely asking about her numbers and screentime, if those had been preserved in relation to the show. If you didn’t know this particular because you don’t know the show, perhaps you shouldn’t have used his question to rant again about how unworthy of Oscars you think she is?

And yes, it seems she's to you what Lawrence is for ldw.

[Jonathan]

And yes, it seems she's to you what Lawrence is for ldw.

Bitch, please. No on comes even close to ldw's rage about Lawrence's award winning, while filmy's opinion on Hathaway is held by like, half the members here?

[McTeague]

Bitch, please. No on comes even close to ldw's rage about Lawrence's award winning, while filmy's opinion on Hathaway is held by like, half the members here?

First news I have that belonging in a majority makes you right?

And congrats on being in the cool, majority group, PoJo! You must feel so great to know that, no matter what wrong facts you try to pass as right regarding that film, you'll still have the group to cheer for you and support you! Now if filmy says Hathaway is not the focal point of "Come to me", he's right because you'll align with him. And he'll do the same for you, no?! It must feel so cozy, to have that support!

[Jonathan]

First news I have that belonging in a majority makes you right?

What I took issue with was you comment "filmy is to Hathaway as ldw is to Lawrence," a claim that is hilariously dubious. When it comes to ldw's opinion on Lawrence, almost no one shares the seething hatred of Lawrence's awards sweepage. Filmy's annoyance at Hathaway is one that is shared by many, many people here. My claim isn't that "practically half the people here agree with filmy, so you're wrong," my claim is that "a lot more people agree with filmy's opinion on Hathaway than people agree with ldw on Lawrence, so your comparison is ridiculously flawed."

[Blasty]

I understand what filmy is saying, but I don't think whether or not someone is an "agent" or whatever, a character who does things or whatever, has to do with whether the actor gives a great performance or not? Issues with script and plot can be overcome by great acting all the time, though perhaps for some, that isn't the case? It sounds like alot of people have a problem more with the source material again and seem to feel this source material can not support ANYBODY giving a great performance as Fantine, or perhaps any character.

I would just be curious if someone watched the first, say half hour, of the 10th anniversary concert special and still felt Les Miz was a piece of shit and that the actress there was inconsequential as Fantine due to the source material and just OK. I am getting the feeling that quite a few of the naysayers might have the same reaction to the show in any medium or form, in which case, fine then, you just hate Les Miz and find it unbearable. It's not a musical for everyone and there are musical theater fans who don't like it as well.

[McTeague]

What I took issue with was you comment "filmy is to Hathaway as ldw is to Lawrence," a claim that is hilariously dubious. When it comes to ldw's opinion on Lawrence, almost no one shares the seething hatred of Lawrence's awards sweepage. Filmy's annoyance at Hathaway is one that is shared by many, many people here. My claim isn't that "practically half the people here agree with filmy, so you're wrong," my claim is that "a lot more people agree with filmy's opinion on Hathaway than people agree with ldw on Lawrence, so your comparison is ridiculously flawed."

The comparison wasn't based on number of followers, though, as this is not a twitter popularity contest, but on the irrational level of hatred that leads ldw and now filmy to misrepresent everything regarding the actress in question. Like saying, lol, Hathaway is not the focal point in "Come to Me".

[Atonenent.]

He doesn't count time where the character is in the background. Chastain would have a lot more screen time if he did.

Then how does Weaver have any screentime?

[City Lights]

The comparison wasn't based on number of followers, though, as this is not a twitter popularity contest, but on the irrational level of hatred that leads ldw and now filmy to misrepresent everything regarding the actress in question. Like saying, lol, Hathaway is not the focal point in "Come to Me".

But that's not really good enough reasoning either. ldw really only posts about SLP & Lawrence. I would make an educated guess that 4 out of 5 posts she makes are spewing hatred about SLP and/or Lawrence. 80%! While you may have a point about Filmy's hatred of Les Mis, he does not make it a point to post about it all day every day including in topics and threads irrelevant to Les Mis, like ldw with SLP/Lawrence.

I only make the joke comparison of Filmy and ldw because you began to hint at Filmy posting exclusively about his hatred for the movie.

[filmy]

I understand what filmy is saying, but I don't think whether or not someone is an "agent" or whatever, a character who does things or whatever, has to do with whether the actor gives a great performance or not? Issues with script and plot can be overcome by great acting all the time, though perhaps for some, that isn't the case? It sounds like alot of people have a problem more with the source material again and seem to feel this source material can not support ANYBODY giving a great performance as Fantine, or perhaps any character.

What I'm saying - and what McT cannot refute - is that, despite what he says, the majority of Anne Hathaway's performance is relegated to her as background noise/the torturee because it's what provides context for why she spends the other half of her performance sobbing, essentially. So in her 20 mins of screen time, she is only maybe the star of 10 mins of it, and there she is fine but nothing special, and the actual "emoting" is, as other have said, arguably overdone and borderline campy and undermines any emotion that could be found in the material. We've interweaving two different things here (the screen time debate/her limited presence which has somehow been manipulated by McT's black and white dream world into "Hathaway does nothing" and her actual performance). That she glides in and out of the film so fast also does not help Hathaway achieve any emotional pay-off, which may make her performance seen even more ridiculous.

Also, if anyone is "ldw" (LOL) for Les Miserables, it is McTeague.

[Blasty]

What I'm saying - and what McT cannot refute - is that, despite what he says, the majority of Anne Hathaway's performance is relegated to her as background noise/the torturee because it's what provides context for why she spends the other half of her performance sobbing, essentially. So in her 20 mins of screen time, she is only maybe the star of 10 mins of it, and there she is fine but nothing special, and the actual "emoting" is, as other have said, arguably overdone and borderline campy and undermines any emotion that could be found in the material. We've interweaving two different things here (the screen time debate/her limited presence which has somehow been manipulated by McT's black and white dream world into "Hathaway does nothing" and her actual performance). That she glides in and out of the film so fast also does not help Hathaway achieve any emotional pay-off, which may make her performance seen even more ridiculous.

Also, if anyone is "ldw" (LOL) for Les Miserables, it is McTeague.

I still kinda feel all these concerns would most likely be a problem for you with ANY Les Miz production though? But I mean, if it's problematic, it's problematic for you. The actress from the concert special gave my favorite performance from the special and it doesn't sound like it's presented all that differently from the movie is.

If you're problem is 'Who is Fantine? I don't know her.' You're going to have that problem with ALL versions of this musical. Fantine is as you said, the 'downtrodden', she's obviously a symbol, an archetype, the 'Mother', an example of lost humanity in this place and for many in the audience, that in and of itself is enough, they "get it". It's all done in bold strokes but character development is besides the point here, and THAT I know, is a major problem for some who require more depth in their films - the depth is in the plot, the melodrama, and it IS manipulative, but certain cinephiles don't like their stories to be told this way, so they rail against it.

[Aurelius]

What is all this talking about the importance of her character and the amount of screentime she has? Hathaway is undeserving for the simple fact that her acting is poor and overwrought (no criticism on her vocal chops though).

[crazyfists3600]

[coldmess]

In other news, I really like Guy Lodge's defense of Silver Linings Playbook http://www.hitfix.com/in-contention/...silver-linings

I'm still surprised that it needs defending in the first place, honestly.

[Matt24]

In other news, I really like Guy Lodge's defense of Silver Linings Playbook http://www.hitfix.com/in-contention/...silver-linings

I'm still surprised that it needs defending in the first place, honestly.

Yeah, I enjoyed that. It's reached extreme levels of backlash, rivaled by only Les Mis. I suppose it's even worse in SLP's case since the critics actually went to bat for it. Though, I see Tapley couldn't help himself from dropping his 2 cents. Why bother posting this if your editor is just going to crap all over it?

[nadine]

DOR and JLaw are going to be on Piers Morgan tonight. Any chance they can bitch slap him in the process?

[Matt24]

DOR and JLaw are going to be on Piers Morgan tonight. Any chance they can bitch slap him in the process?

Sasha Stone will be live tweeting how Silver Linings Playbook is an insult to women, mental illness and the world at large. She even went after DOR's son when she said he doesn't have bi-polar and only has autism because she read an article that said he was autistic. He suffers from both, which is *gasps* entirely possible. Of course, Sasha thought they were sucking sympathy, Tapley, naturally, agreed.

[coldmess]

That twitter exchange between Stone and Tapley was so gross. They are vile people.

[nadine]

Sasha Stone will be live tweeting how Silver Linings Playbook is an insult to women, mental illness and the world at large. She even went after DOR's son when she said he doesn't have bi-polar and only has autism because she read an article that said he was autistic. He suffers from both, which is *gasps* entirely possible. Of course, Sasha thought they were sucking sympathy, Tapley, naturally, agreed.

*sigh* that's all I really have to say about Stone and Tapley. Though I did crack up when she tweeted the ET video of Jennifer and her parents especially after she had been slamming her film all awards season.

Lodge on the other hand. Love that piece he wrote.

[Michael_Bay]

Sasha Stone will be live tweeting how Silver Linings Playbook is an insult to women, mental illness and the world at large. She even went after DOR's son when she said he doesn't have bi-polar and only has autism because she read an article that said he was autistic. He suffers from both, which is *gasps* entirely possible. Of course, Sasha thought they were sucking sympathy, Tapley, naturally, agreed.

I mean, really ?

They are pathetic and sad, sad people.
.

[Matt24]

I mean, really ?

They are pathetic and sad, sad people.
.

Dead serious, right during Lawrence's acceptance speech. Of course, Tapley followed that up with 'Congrats Lawrence on not having to face Riva.' Riva gives the best performance of the year, but I'm all in on Lawrence now just to see Tapley get that smug smile wiped right off his face.