your Top 10 Musical Movies

[Capt. January]

How did I leave out any, or all, of those nicely sung, danced, beautifiully scored, funny and colorful Carmen Miranda, Betty Grable, Don Ameche, Alice Faye, John Payne, Charlotte Greenwood films like: DOWN ARGENTINE WAY, WEEKEND IN HAVANA, THE GANG`S ALL HERE and several more. Miranda (a force of nature) sort of copied earlier Lupe Velez, and now a tv actress has kind of copied Miranda`s linguistics and persona.

Yay for those technicolor Fox musicals of the 40s. I guess they'll always come in second to the MGM films, but Alice Faye's beautiful alto is a lot easier on the ear than Kathryn Grayson's or Jane Powell's trilling (not dissing the soprano's - "7 Brides for 7 brothers" might come in second or third on my list of favorite musicals). I'm indifferent about Betty Grable - maybe her legs were the only thing about her?

@ Ben7
And while on the subject of Fox musicals, the black and white "Orchestra Wives" has Glenn MIller and the NIcholas brothers. It's hard to tell if it might appeal to you, but I really think the music and dance numbers in it should be required viewing to anyone interested in movie musicals.

Of course the best way, at least in the classic musicals, to film a dance is to not cut a lot and just film the dance.

You're right:

Astaire was known to be a perfectionist and not averse to taking charge of certain aspects of the filming; he always lay down the law when he believed he was right. Although officially uncredited, it is universally acknowledged he was the principal choreographer for the entire film series. Hermes Pan was in charge of big production numbers, and when he and Astaire worked out the other dances, Pan played Ginger. When the routine was all set, they showed it to Rogers. Beyond the actual steps, however, Astaire also supervised every other aspect of the development of a dance number from orchestration through final shooting and editing. He was particularly adamant about how a number should be filmed. He disliked interrupting the flow of the dance with unusual camera angles, cuts to the face or feet of the dancer, or reaction shots of people watching. In this film [Top Hat] and throughout his career, he insisted on keeping the camera at eye level with few changes in angles to focus attention on the dance rather than on camera technique. The dances were rarely broken up into segments that could be filmed in small bits at a time; as a result, multiple takes became arduous affairs that often lasted well into the night. At times Rogers' shoes had to be changed frequently because they would become stained with blood.

But I'm taking Astaire's side on this.

[McTeague]

You're right:

But I'm taking Astaire's side on this.

That's how Minnelli and Donen filmed the dances too and they still could doit better than Sandrich. Astaire had no problem in that regard when he filmed Funny Face with Donen or Band Wagon with Minnelli, and those two films were much more visually inventive and apealing (and just plain better films) than any of his Sandrich films.

[Capt. January]

That's how Minnelli and Donen filmed the dances too and they still could doit better than Sandrich. Astaire had no problem in that regard when he filmed Funny Face with Donen or Band Wagon with Minnelli, and those two films were much more visually inventive and apealing (and just plain better films) than any of his Sandrich films.

Why I'm taking Astaire's side is that in his case in particular, his graceful movements are the only thing I need to enjoy the movie. They don't need an editor or a cameraman's help. Watching Eleanor Powell, on the other hand, one benefits from a close up to her speed-tapping feet. I agree that, in cinematic terms, MGM/Donen/Minnelli/Kelly features are richer than RKO/Stevens/Sandrich/Astaire. But, for personal enjoyment, I'll watch (the lesser Astaire/Rodgers) "Carefree" over "Singing in The Rain" any day.

Re. Astaire's 1950s films, the man was in his 50s so maybe he needed a bit of help from the crew.

BTW, it may sound as if I'm implying that Kelly NEEDED editing or camera angles because he was a lesser dancer. NOT SO. Astaire and Kelly had two very different styles. A rather motionless camera would not have captured Kelly's dynamic dancing or acrobatics. The elegance of Astaire, on the other hand, was probably better served by minimal cinematic techniques.

[nike290]

Sandrich didn't direct Swing Time. George Stevens did. Ya burnt.

Also, flat visuals. I just rewatched Swing Time and was tickled by the details Stevens chooses to show in the foreground and background. Though there's not a great screen grab, the "Waltz in Swing Time" sequence is so lovely in its use of space, with the slight but kinda enchanting detail of snow falling outside, as seen through the window deep in the background. (There is a conversation between Astaire and Rogers that happens in front of the window, looking out at the snow cityscape of Central Park and upper Manhattan. The same window set used in the final scene.) There is movement and rhythm to the photography and editing. And the whole "Never Gonna Dance" sequence is pretty sublime from a directorial standpoint, a real melding of performance, choreography and camera. And then there's the "Bojangles of Harlem" set and costume, with those giant unfolding legs!

I'm not sure what you are expecting from a style that served as launch pad for Minnelli AND Donen! If it's color, it was the mid 30s. If it's movement, it's the mid 30s, moving the camera was still tricky, and yet they did subtle yet lovely things with the moving camera, and no big cranes were needed for there stories. If its "control", I refer again to "Never Gonna Dance".

I'm no Sondheim purist, but my opinion of Lovett is that, however "cinematic" the choices made (a dubious and very hazy distinction), the essential narrative fact is that she must, in the end, be the truly mad one, the one acting purely from a diseased mind. I found Carter blank and the feelings of terror you mentioned barely registered. I'm not talking about big choices vs. small choices. I think it's the distinction is that, from my vantage point, she barely made any choices. I don't mind the movie skirting with the choral work or the

Also, of course there's the "well Sondheim liked it, so you're wrong," argument. Which is boneheaded, because it takes other viewpoints out of consideration. He has said he liked the movie for its bold storytelling choices, for keeping it all moving at a cinematic pace, which is evident in the film and hard to argue with. The design of the film feels very Sweeney. It's the passion and venom of the piece that woefully fails to connect, and I link that to the Carter, Burton, and even, to a lesser extent, to Depp.

[Jim]

Did anyone mention COVER GIRL with superb dancers Rita Hayworth and Gene Kelly...? Her ramp entrance to the title song will haunt you.... Hayworth danced well with Kelly and Astaire earlier, but, I don`t think she gets enough credit for her partnered dancing. The lady delivered a memorable scene or two in this Kelly film....and the two Astaire films, which were not top notch, except for the dancing.
I know someone mentioned the brilliant Nicolas Brothers in ORCHESTRA WIVES. That`s a real good call. The film is sort of standard for the time, but all the musical score & numbers are fine. Catch the Brothers in any old thing... Same for Eleanor Powell in LADY BE GOOD, BORN TO DANCE, etc.
Non-dancer Paulette Goddard miraculously kept up with Fred Astaire in the fair SECOND CHORUS. Catch that dance number... and Artie Shaw.... You may not forget it.
All right, I got off subject... I`m not sorry.

[OscarLovesMe]

1. Singin' in the Rain
2. The Wizard of Oz
3. Cabaret
4. Dancer in the Dark
5. Moulin Rouge!
6. The Little Mermaid
7. Beauty and the Beast
8. The Sound of Music
9. A Star is Born (1954)
10. Top Hat

[McTeague]

Sandrich didn't direct Swing Time. George Stevens did. Ya burnt.

Flat and flatter? Whatever.

I'm not sure what you are expecting from a style that served as launch pad for Minnelli AND Donen! If it's color, it was the mid 30s. If it's movement, it's the mid 30s, moving the camera was still tricky, and yet they did subtle yet lovely things with the moving camera, and no big cranes were needed for there stories. If its "control", I refer again to "Never Gonna Dance".

It was the 30’s also for Berkeley, Lubitsch and Mamoulian and they did better. I’ll give you that the Lubitsch and the (one) Mamoulian musicals were almost nothing about the dance and much more about the singing, which allows for more editing toying, but what about those Berkeley musicals? Even something slightly “meh” like 42nd Street is a visual wonder. Like, I’m not saying the Sandrich (and Stevens, LOL) movies are “bad”. Of course you can find in them “touches”, if you want to. But those touches never elevate them into filmic greatness. They make them nice, something I have never denied they were. They’re just not essential films. Their dances are essential dances in the genre, sure, but the films as a whole are far from that status.

[McTeague]

Plus, five more I have not seen but are on my list of musicals I must watch:

31- Hallelujah, 1929
32- The Love Parade, 1929
33- Chronicle of Anna Magdalena Bach, 1968
34- All That Jazz, 1980
35- Pennies from Heaven, 1981

By some odd coincidences, I just saw over the weekend a couple of these I had listed as my biggest blind spots in the genre: Halleuljah and The Love Parade.

Both are great, but the later, having already seen the other 4 musicals Lubitsch directed, wasn’t the surprise Hallelujah was. And Hallelujah was a surprise, mainly, for its completely odd, for the time, contemplative nature. Much of it is just observation of rituals and masses from the black community it portrays, and they’re not edited or abridged, huge chunks of the film are just these complete rituals filmed in long, long shots. Who knew Bela Tarr had a Hollywood precedent? Exaggeration aside, I loved this mixture of detached observation, akin to a documentary, and classic musical fiction. Many moments in here had an unmistakable, stunning beauty, whether it’s more ecstatic (the amazing scene where the protagonist, SPOILER, in the middle of a ceremony, runs away with the “bad girl”) or more calmed and spiritual (the protagonist’s way back home singing just with his guitar). I guess there are quibbles to make regarding the portrait of black communities, many could school me in that regard, but still the good intention is patent throughout and the cinematic beauty and risk of it all is enough to make the film a classic.

The Lubitsch was another example of his command of the medium, even in his first talkie. It’s not a visual/aural feast like The Merry Widow or a comedy as wonderfully cynical as The Smiling Lieutenant, but it is a nice combination of the two, and I’d rank it right in the middle of his five musicals: it’s very similar to Montecarlo in terms of Lubitsch’s filmic genius, but the later is simply more generic and forgettable as a comedy (and I don’t remember its songs either, so I guess it’s more generic as a musical too). Ranking and rating:

1- The Merry Widow: 5/5
2- The Smiling Lieutenant: 4.5/5
3- The Love Parade: 4/5
4- Montecarlo: 3.5/5
5- An hour with You: 3/5